Culinate

Table Talk: July 15

The meat of the matter

By
July 13, 2010

(Editor’s note: This chat is over, but the transcript is available to read here. And join Kim for another Table Talk chat, most Thursdays.)

Whether you eat meat or you don’t, this week’s chat is for you. Some possible directions: How can we source meat we want to eat? Are there good strategies for cutting back on the amount of meat we eat? What are the health ramifications of eating, or not eating, meat?

Kim O’Donnel leads the discussion, right here, on Thursday, July 15 at 1 p.m. ET, 10 a.m. PT. Sign up below to receive an email reminder of the chat.

Kim, a trained chef and longtime food journalist, is writing a cookbook for people trying to eat less meat. Every week, she brings ideas, tips, and recipes to her live chats — right here at Table Talk, most Thursdays.

 Table Talk with Kim O'Donnel - July 15, 2010(07/15/2010) 
9:45
Kim ODonnel: 
Whether or not you eat meat, it's at the center of our collective conversation. We'll chew on the many aspects of a topic that impacts the environment, our health, our spending and much more. Join us at the top of the hour!
Thursday July 15, 2010 9:45 Kim ODonnel
10:02
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey folks, As you know, I host a monthly meatless chat but realized recently that we rarely talk about meat & how it works its way into our collective conversation these days -- be it environment, health, industrial ag. Thought it would be fun, enlightening to kick this topic around. Anything is fair game -- just as long as we play nice. Debate, yes! But constructive. Let's roll.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:02 Kim ODonnel
10:02
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Glad to get back for the actual chat. Can anyone suggest the best options for getting meat with as few middle men between me and the farmer in my DC metro (Alexandria) area? There used to be someone at my farmers market, but not anymore. Thanks.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:02 Lizka
10:03
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey Lizka, welcome back. Do you mean buying directly from your farmer without having to go to market? Or just finding a farm market where locally raised meat is sold? Talk to me.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:03 Kim ODonnel
10:04
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
I'd contact chefs who cook with local foods to find a connection.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:04 debra
10:04
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey Debra, glad you could join us. What's your relationship with meat?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:04 Kim ODonnel
10:05
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Either, honestly just looking for guidance on whatever options there are so I can figure out what would be best for me. I do live in an apartment though, so no extra freezer space, which is an important consideration, I believe.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:05 Lizka
10:06
Kim ODonnel: 
Joel Salatin at Polyface farm does a buying club, with drop-off locations closer to the city, so that may be an option. DelRay market -- check out SmithFresh meats.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:06 Kim ODonnel
10:06
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
I have a question about veal - yes, or no? I have the local/grass-fed/happy animal side of things taken care of, and I realize that the best research is going to be talking to the farmer. But... is there still a big stigma attached to this type of meat product? Just asking.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:06 Erin
10:07
Kim C.: 
FYI: For everyone who wants to know more about where their meat is from: There's a great article in the most recent edition of Edible Portland by Camas Davis, a Portland woman who's trying to learn the lost art of butchery. Page 42. http://edibleportland.com/content/currentissue/
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:07 Kim C.
10:09
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey Erin, I have a farmer friend in Virginia, who raises cows, pigs, chickens, goats, lambs and turkeys. She's told me privately that the hardest thing for her to do in this work she loves is watch lamb get slaughtered. Everything else she has stomach for. I think it varies from farmer to farmer -- some have v. personal reactions, others recognize this as part of process (and business). That said, think it's worth having these conversations, even if you think it's touchy.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:09 Kim ODonnel
10:10
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I'm here!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:10 Jeanne in Seattle
10:10
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey Jeanne! What's your relationship with meat?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:10 Kim ODonnel
10:10
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
For Lizka - does your market have a website, or belong to a group of markets? I receive a weekly e-newsletter that lists our regional farmers markets and also provides a list of who/what will be where. Ask any of the vendors at your usual haunt, and they should be able to put you in touch with the market manager, who may have this resource.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:10 Erin
10:10
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
Hey Kim--I've been a vegetarian for 30 years and have only recently eaten a bit of salmon with friends. I never liked meat (poultry, fish etc) so don't include it in my diet plan, but my husband and daughter eat meat--grass fed and all that.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:10 debra
10:11
Kim ODonnel: 
Debra, with mixed diets within the family, what kinds of issues, if any, come up?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:11 Kim ODonnel
10:11
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Erin - great idea; thanks.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:11 Lizka
10:12
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
This may expose me as the weirdo that I am, but I am still very concerned about BSE (aka, mad cow disease). I've read books and articles about it and it is super-scary. And it takes years to develop. My family and I don't eat beef because of this. Anyone else have this concern?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:12 Jeanne in Seattle
10:14
Kim ODonnel: 
Jeanne, if you talked to food safety lawyer Bill Marler, he'd tell you that you're not crazy at all. He's not allowed his daughters to have a hamburger. I think we have to be vigilant and constantly educate ourselves. Just heard this week that there's an effort to create a consumer card for meat, like there are with seafood. I would love to see this happen.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:14 Kim ODonnel
10:14
[Comment From Joyce @friendsdriftinn Joyce @friendsdriftinn : ] 
We "split" a local beef with another family each year. These are raised on small family farms. I don't worry as much when the food is from a producer I know.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:14 Joyce @friendsdriftinn
10:15
Kim ODonnel: 
Joyce, where are you located? And about how much does your split yield -- as in, how long does it typically last & what kind of money are we talking?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:15 Kim ODonnel
10:15
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Yeah, we don't allow our daughter to eat anything that has touched beef or beef meat products. She's the one with the most to lose if she gets it.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:15 Jeanne in Seattle
10:16
Kim ODonnel: 
But Jeanne, if you had a relationship with a farmer, would you change your tune about beef? Just curious.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:16 Kim ODonnel
10:16
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I think we really need to educate people more about how meat is processed. I was shocked to hear during the last hamburger scare (about e. coli I think) that up to 1000 different cows could have contributed meat to a pound of hamburger.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:16 Jeanne in Seattle
10:17
Kim ODonnel: 
Yes, that's the ugly reality of industrial meat.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:17 Kim ODonnel
10:17
[Comment From Joyce @friendsdriftinn Joyce @friendsdriftinn : ] 
Here in the Appalachians, there is a real shortage of meat suppliers. It is pretty much the chain stores or nothing. No local meat shops. As for yeild, about 200 Lbs of beef. Money...I'm not sure.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:17 Joyce @friendsdriftinn
10:19
Kim ODonnel: 
Wow, 200 pounds of meat. That's quite the yield, Joyce. I think this option of splitting an animal with another family is going to be the future. It's more economical, it's less wasteful, it's keeping dollars local.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:19 Kim ODonnel
10:19
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
Jeanne - BSE is what took me out of the big supermarket and to the farmers market, and *still* it is scary. I will not allow the purchase or consumption of Big Beef products by my immediate family (esp. the kids), which tempts us at things like family reunions. All of this being said, it took me a long time to take the leap to purchase meat at the farmers market; I started with chicken and pork, and occasionally buy beef. What I do like is knowing a) where it came from, and b) that things like ground-products are only from one animal (I've asked!).
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:19 Erin
10:20
[Comment From Joyce @friendsdriftinn Joyce @friendsdriftinn : ] 
Jeanne, do you follow @KyFarmersMatter? She is a meat butcher/retailer who has alot of insight into the small business producers.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:20 Joyce @friendsdriftinn
10:20
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
Everyone cooks their own meat and washes their own pans, if they want to eat it, here. My husband doesn't care and chooses vegetarian, but orders meat at restaurants. Distant relatives and some friends are often at odds about what to serve vegetarian. I think plant-based diets are more sustainable than even switching to grass fed meats.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:20 debra
10:21
Kim ODonnel: 
It's so interesting how meat figures into family dynamics and our relationships. Just think, 10 years ago we weren't even having these kinds of conversations. I consider this huge progress to be integrating, confronting.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:21 Kim ODonnel
10:21
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Agree with Jeanne; it's horrifying how commercial meat processing is performed - obviously, we're finally getting some mainstream films and the like, but I wish there was more too.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:21 Lizka
10:22
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
I found "Food, Inc." to be very alarming where beef production was concerned (and, in general), and M. Pollan's chapter about Big Beef in "Omnivore's Delimma" was also a very good primer. Pollan's writing has forever changed my tune about food (and Kim, you provided excellent introduction too!).
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:22 Erin
10:23
Kim ODonnel: 
Other food docs worth watching about what's happening w/ industrial meat: Fresh, SuperSize Me (still relevant after 6 years)
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:23 Kim ODonnel
10:24
Kim ODonnel: 
Fast Food Nation is another eye-opening film. Tapping the memory for the others...
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:24 Kim ODonnel
10:24
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
One of the best books I read about meat was Pasture Perfect by Jo Robinson of the eatwild Web site. Even though I hadn't eaten meat for so long I was horrified when I learned they add arsenic to chicken feed so chickens gain weight--dangerous work for those farmworkers.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:24 debra
10:25
Kim ODonnel: 
Haven't read Jo's book but know it. Catherine Friend is a farmer in Minnesota and she wrote the Compassionate Carnivore. A terrific read. And there's Nicolette Niman's Righteous Porkchop.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:25 Kim ODonnel
10:25
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I don't know if I will ever change my tune about beef. They still don't know where it comes from (could just be in the soil) and so any cow could get it (theoretically). The way our food system is going, I'm not comfortable with taking any chances--even with humanely treated cows. That said, I haven't eaten beef for 20 years and I don't crave it or consider it a necessity of my life. I know many people who do crave it.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:25 Jeanne in Seattle
10:26
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
I can't bring myself to watch Food, Inc. Omnivore's Dilemma was more than enough for me. It's too upsetting.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:26 Lizka
10:27
Kim ODonnel: 
Lizka, see if you can get your hands on Fresh. It is a bit more uplifting, in that it focuses on what folks are doing to challenge the system.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:27 Kim ODonnel
10:27
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
Book club?!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:27 Erin
10:27
Kim ODonnel: 
I like it, Erin. We could definitely think about that going forward.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:27 Kim ODonnel
10:27
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
Lizka - you're so right. I'd read the book first, but seeing parts of "Food, Inc." just put real images into my head. Horrifying.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:27 Erin
10:28
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
I'll have to add those books to my list. Thanks Kim. I wonder do people really crave beef. I hear that too, is it like craving vanilla ice cream?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:28 debra
10:30
Kim ODonnel: 
Re: books: I also recommend Anna Lappe's "Diet for a Hot Planet" which digs deep into the environmental issues connected to meat production, with a hard look at industrial ag.
Also Gristle, a collection of essays compiled by Moby and Miyun Park.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:30 Kim ODonnel
10:30
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
OOo - I'm in on the book club. Awesome idea. Good to know Kim (about Fresh). Thanks.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:30 Lizka
10:31
Kim ODonnel: 
Lizka, in FRESH, you'll meet Will Allen, an urban farmer in Milwaukee who's doing extraordinary things.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:31 Kim ODonnel
10:31
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
Images like the ones I used to get on the Peta cards are just not helpful. Just too graphic and in your face.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:31 debra
10:35
Kim ODonnel: 
Debra, I'm glad you say that, even as a vegetarian. There are so many reasons people choose not to eat meat -- and animal welfare is a biggie. I'm not sure shock value is the way to go, but for some folks, I'm sure that works. I also like to come to my own decisions and not be judged for what I decide to eat. As many of you know, I eat meat and enjoy it, but over the past few years, eat less & less of it, first for health, now for environment. Even with my new book coming out, the last thing I want to do is tell people what to do. But a dialogue - yes, let's please have that.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:35 Kim ODonnel
10:35
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
I do crave beef, personally. Not very often, but yes.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:35 Erin
10:35
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
Very cool idea about a book club.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:35 debra
10:35
Kim ODonnel: 
I will talk w/ Kim C. about it -- see if we can try it on an experimental basis.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:35 Kim ODonnel
10:35
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Oops, sorry for dropping out for a minute. I also can't bring myself to watch Food, Inc. I would never eat again I'm sure...
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:35 Jeanne in Seattle
10:36
[Comment From Joyce @friendsdriftinn Joyce @friendsdriftinn : ] 
Well, I guess I'm just an old country girl. Grew up eating homegrown beef, chickens etc. Think I'll bow out of this one. Later y'all!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:36 Joyce @friendsdriftinn
10:36
Kim ODonnel: 
Joyce, love having your perspective. Please don't go!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:36 Kim ODonnel
10:36
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
PETA at their extreme is not helpful. To be honest, we have to acknowledge that humans are designed to eat meat. Our teeth and our digestive systems prove it. But, how much and what meat needs more thought and analysis in our culture. This is what Kim O is touching on with her book.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:36 Jeanne in Seattle
10:38
Kim ODonnel: 
This is what I find infinitely fascinating. No matter where we stand on meat, it's everywhere we go -- in our relationships, in our politics, in the movies...
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:38 Kim ODonnel
10:38
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
I've been slowly decreasing meat eating the same way as Kim - I still like to eat it, but it's not a given every night anymore. Still my husband can't be broken (so far), so there is more consumption than I think I would have if it was only me.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:38 Lizka
10:40
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
I also get tired of the movies that graphically depict processing meat in our industrial food system. It doesn't seem to change the people it's aimed at.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:40 debra
10:40
[Comment From Tara Mataraza Desmond Tara Mataraza Desmond : ] 
Curses! I wanted to be all in on this chat. So much to it!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:40 Tara Mataraza Desmond
10:41
Kim ODonnel: 
Welcome, Tara! She's the co-author of "Almost Meatless."
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:41 Kim ODonnel
10:41
Kim ODonnel: 
Tara, what's your relationship with meat these days? Has it changed since your book came out last year?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:41 Kim ODonnel
10:41
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
I'm not so sure we're "designed" to eat meat. I've met plenty of people from India who have been vegetarian since birth and have no compelling health problems from a vegetarian diet.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:41 debra
10:43
Kim ODonnel: 
Whether or not you think we're 'designed' to eat meat, we are a meat-eating culture in this country. Average per capita consumption is about 200 pounds per year. We think meat is what's for dinner. That is not going to go away, ever. But it is shifting into a more diverse, open-minded playing field.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:43 Kim ODonnel
10:43
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
Lizka - in our home, it started with a periodic substitution, such as "veggie crumbles" in the sauce for lasagna. Then later we just added meat to stir fry once in a while. It was very gradual. My final coup was turning him on to the local-angle; we do eat meat, of a much higher quality, much less often. It's definitely reserved for something special.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:43 Erin
10:44
Kim ODonnel: 
Gradual, incremental steps seems to be key to changing our tunes about what we eat, no matter what it is. Small change seems a lot easier to manage for most folks, and it's what sticks.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:44 Kim ODonnel
10:44
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I'm not saying that eating vegetarian is unhealthful, I'm just saying that in the scheme of things we are designed to eat meat. So the arguments that the act of eating meat is something we shouldn't do are not correct. What people chose to do is fine with me--and usually seems good for them.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:44 Jeanne in Seattle
10:46
Kim ODonnel: 
Some would disagree with you, Jeanne, and I agree -- this all comes to down to what feels right -- in your own body, kitchen and family.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:46 Kim ODonnel
10:46
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Erin - I've tried all that, and he definitely appreciates all of it, but his default is still "hot meat". I do what I can and don't stress the rest.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:46 Lizka
10:46
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
(And I gotta say that a flame-kissed burger with a fine glass of shiraz is one of my ideas of a good time.)
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:46 Erin
10:48
Kim ODonnel: 
Erin, I do understand that pleasure principle.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:48 Kim ODonnel
10:48
[Comment From maukgirl maukgirl : ] 
We've been buying meat through a meat CSA in Chicago for about 1.5 years now and it's definitely changed our style. Since we get a frozen pack each month - we try to plan around what is in there and try hard not to supplement.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:48 maukgirl
10:48
Kim ODonnel: 
That's a compelling scenario, maukgirl. I think this kind of set up is going to become the hot new thing over the next few years. Just wait and see.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:48 Kim ODonnel
10:49
[Comment From Tara Mataraza Desmond Tara Mataraza Desmond : ] 
I find that lots of my "contemporaries" are shifting toward a less meat lifestyle that allows them to spend the extra $ for better quality meat. But my mom is the best example of an excellent cook who is in the dark about the problems with meat sources and driven by the price. When she says "I got such and such for $2.99 a pound at Shop Rite!" or "I can't believe that ground beef for $5.99! Are they nuts?" I cringe a little and feel a little exhausted by the prospect of trying to change her mind.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:49 Tara Mataraza Desmond
10:50
Kim ODonnel: 
Tara, the price point definitely is the last holding ground for lots of folks. I hear this at the farmer's market all the time. We've gotten so used to getting meat for cheap. It is hard to unlearn.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:50 Kim ODonnel
10:51
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
In The End of Food Paul Roberts talks about our heavy meat consumption and says the only way we can eat sustainably is to reduce our meat consumption to the level of India which is about 20 pounds per person per year. The world population keeps growing. Fat chance of reducing meat consumption much in this country.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:51 debra
10:51
[Comment From Carrie Oliver Carrie Oliver : ] 
Kim, sooo sorry to be so late, got hung up on phone.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:51 Carrie Oliver
10:51
Kim ODonnel: 
And welcome Carrie Oliver, who has an interesting business called The Artisan Beef Institute.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:51 Kim ODonnel
10:52
[Comment From Carrie Oliver Carrie Oliver : ] 
Tara, you hit a hot button for me, which is the expectation (sense of entitlement) we seem to have for cheap meat.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:52 Carrie Oliver
10:52
[Comment From maukgirl maukgirl : ] 
we're lucky in Chicago - there are a lot of options from CSAs to just cuts at the farmer's market to buying whole and half animals. We also have a large variety here. The farm we use does pig/chicken/beef, but I know others that are sheet/beef focused and we even have an elk vendor
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:52 maukgirl
10:52
Kim ODonnel: 
That is terrific, maukgirl. And I bet, over the long haul, you are saving big bucks, no?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:52 Kim ODonnel
10:53
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
I don't think you can ever change someones mind about eating meat, not even your own mother.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:53 debra
10:53
Kim ODonnel: 
So true, Debra! Meat -- with, without, less, more, when, why, how -- is so very personal.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:53 Kim ODonnel
10:53
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Wow maugril - I am jealous of all your options!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:53 Lizka
10:53
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
My CSA has a meat and egg option... the members receive first notification of beef, pork, chicken and duck when available; sometimes she takes advance orders in the summer for turkey at t-day, or the number of chickens you'd like for your winter freezer, then she raises/butchers them.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:53 Erin
10:54
[Comment From maukgirl maukgirl : ] 
I think it can be slow progress. My in-laws saw Food, Inc and wanted to make a change, but they are very price focused so its hard for them to really change. On the other hand, my sister just asked me how to find a farm in her area and she's never expressed interest in this kind of stuff before.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:54 maukgirl
10:54
Kim ODonnel: 
Wow, that is HUGE. I'm telling you, these conversations are so key. Slow, steady Freddie.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:54 Kim ODonnel
10:54
[Comment From Carrie Oliver Carrie Oliver : ] 
Kim, looking back over transcript, a good first step is to stop wasting the meat we buy. We toss 30-60%.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:54 Carrie Oliver
10:55
Kim ODonnel: 
Carrie, I'm assuming you mean we need to plan better when we cook meat -- figure out how to repurpose it after the first night, etc?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:55 Kim ODonnel
10:55
[Comment From Tara Mataraza Desmond Tara Mataraza Desmond : ] 
Yup, Carrie. It's a MAJOR blocker of progress on promoting quality meat. I keep trying to gently encourage my mom to watch Food Inc., but I think she is intentionally choosing not to b/c she knows she'll be horrified. Debra, I think you CAN change people's minds, but you have to convince them to be open minded first! I changed my mind about meat while studying food/cooking in culinary school and especially while writing my cookbook.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:55 Tara Mataraza Desmond
10:56
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Also, I just want to make clear that I am pro-vegetarian and pro-meat eating. Was a vegetarian for 10 years, was a pescetarian for 5, am now a poultry and pork eater. :)
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:56 Jeanne in Seattle
10:56
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
Erin - aren't you in the same area as me (DC metro)? What CSA do you go through?
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:56 Lizka
10:56
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
Lizka - I'm in Central PA. Sorry that I can't be more directly helpful.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:56 Erin
10:57
[Comment From Jennifer Jennifer : ] 
Interesting about cost. We have can buy directly from Farmers in D.C. ( I go to the Falls Church Farmer's Market) but it is much more expensive than the grocery store. It concerns me that the buying local just isn't accessible to so many because of the cost.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:57 Jennifer
10:57
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
I think if we remain the open minded ones we stand a better chance of showing people how great our diets are rather than expecting others to change.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:57 debra
10:57
[Comment From Carrie Oliver Carrie Oliver : ] 
Yes, Kim, either planning better or re-purposing or both. Another strategy - Artisan or near-artisan meats tend to have more flavor so it's easy to eat smaller portions. We "fill up" faster.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:57 Carrie Oliver
10:58
Kim ODonnel: 
Thanks, Carrie. I think too the idea of buying 1/2 or 1/4 of an animal is a GREAT direction away from wastefulness.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:58 Kim ODonnel
10:58
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Debra, I think that is so true and very wise.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:58 Jeanne in Seattle
10:59
Kim ODonnel: 
We have become so accustomed to having anything/everything at our fingertips whenever we want it. That mindset/business model breeds waste.
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:59 Kim ODonnel
10:59
[Comment From Lizka Lizka : ] 
GREAT conversation today. Thanks all!
Thursday July 15, 2010 10:59 Lizka
11:00
[Comment From Carrie Oliver Carrie Oliver : ] 
Debra, you are absolutely right. Lead with the carrot, not the stick.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:00 Carrie Oliver
11:00
[Comment From debra debra : ] 
Thanks Jeanne I'd love to meet up sometime.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:00 debra
11:00
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
The cost issue is directly related to quality vs. quantity. If people only look at it in terms of getting a lot, then the quality will suffer.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:00 Jeanne in Seattle
11:01
[Comment From Carrie Oliver Carrie Oliver : ] 
Kim, great chat. Jeanne, I think of engineering adage Good Fast Cheap, choose two. We've chosen Fast and Cheap. I say Good and Cheap.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:01 Carrie Oliver
11:02
[Comment From Jennifer Jennifer : ] 
I agree re quality but I wonder about families. If a chicken at the market is 2-3 times what it is at the grocery store, how many can afford to regularly buy from farmers? No easy answers, I know.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:02 Jennifer
11:02
[Comment From maukgirl maukgirl : ] 
I know that buying 1/2 or a whole animal is much cheaper. We pay about $85/month for our CSA but I think the whole animals are between $3-6/lb. But we live in a condo so there is no way for us to store meat. Talking to farmers here that seems to be an issue for them too. The farm we use had to buy and install a huge freezer for themselves because any kind of rental space was just too much.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:02 maukgirl
11:03
Kim ODonnel: 
We've touched on many aspects of this endlessly fascinating topic. Thank you all for stopping by. GREAT conversation, which I hope to resume sooner rather than later. Please let me know if this is a topic you'd like to revisit on a regular basis. Until next week. Be well.
Thursday July 15, 2010 11:03 Kim ODonnel