Table Talk: November 18

Thanksgiving glory

By
November 15, 2010

(Editor’s note: This chat is over, but the transcript is available to read here. And join Kim for another Table Talk chat, most Thursdays.)

Next week is Thanksgiving, the biggest feasting day in the United States — and, yes, the biggest cooking day too.

Kim O’Donnel is here on Thursday, November 18, at 10 a.m. PT, 1 p.m. ET to answer your turkey questions, stuffing questions, sweet potato, cranberry, and mashed potato questions. She’ll talk pie, and rolls, and green beans.

Oh my, she’ll even talk you through setting the table!

Bring your links, ideas, questions, and suggestions to Table Talk, this Thursday.

Sign up below to receive an email reminder of the chat.

Kim, a cookbook author, trained chef, and longtime food journalist, brings ideas, tips, and recipes to her live chats — right here at Table Talk, most Thursdays.


 Table Talk with Kim O'Donnel -Nov. 18, 2010(11/18/2010) 
9:58
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey folks, just 8 days to go! How's everyone doing? This part 2 of our Thanksgiving chat-a-thon -- last week, we talked a veggied centered feast; this week, it's all about turkey, trimmings, food safety & anything else on your mind. Without further delay, let's dish!
Thursday November 18, 2010 9:58 Kim ODonnel
10:00
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I'm here!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:00 Jeanne in Seattle
10:01
Kim ODonnel: 
Hey Jeanne! Have you sorted out your menu yet?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:01 Kim ODonnel
10:01
Kim ODonnel: 
Our group has grown from 7 to 10, so all the more important to do potluck style, methinks.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:01 Kim ODonnel
10:02
Kim C.: 
Every year my brother in law brings garlic mashed potatoes, which is a huge help!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:02 Kim C.
10:03
Kim ODonnel: 
I'm picking up the turkey this Sat am from a local farm -- thinking about spatchcocking it -- you know, removing the back bone so I can make stock from it & then roasting it flat.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:03 Kim ODonnel
10:03
[Comment From Sarah Sarah : ] 
That sounds yum. I'm cooking a turkey for the first time, from an Amish farm.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:03 Sarah
10:04
Kim ODonnel: 
Congratulations, Sarah! How do you plan to cook it? To brine or not to brine? Do tell.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:04 Kim ODonnel
10:04
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
I'm cooking for a large group this year, about 12, and usually we start with a soup then hang out, have a salad and then hang out, and then feast. I'm concerned that for a large group we should eat in one sitting. Do I have to dump the soup course since it's awkward to serve at the table?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:04 Linear Girl
10:05
Kim ODonnel: 
Linear, I'm a big fan of the soup course at Thanksgiving, as you'll find out in my meatless Thanksgiving piece which will be up on Culinate by tomorrow. I think having courses is really useful, not just for veggie Thnxgiving tables but for big groups. It eliminates the "trough" phenomenon.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:05 Kim ODonnel
10:05
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Yeah--we will have our usual menu: turkey, dressing, mashed potatoes, green beans, sauteed kale, dinner rolls, pumpkin pie chocolate cake.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:05 Jeanne in Seattle
10:06
Kim ODonnel: 
Jeanne, talk 'bout dem green beans. Whaddya do w/ them?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:06 Kim ODonnel
10:06
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Kim - roasting it flat???? You heathen! You could roast a chicken this weekend and make your stock from that for your gravy.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:06 Linear Girl
10:07
Kim ODonnel: 
You're right, Linear, I could. But I'm going to try it this way. Skin will still be on, and I may still brine it as well.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:07 Kim ODonnel
10:07
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I just heard a radio show about removing the bones and roasting the turkey flat. Never knew that THAT was what spatchcocking was!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:07 Jeanne in Seattle
10:08
Kim ODonnel: 
Yes, spatchcocking is the funny word or sometimes you hear referred to as 'butterflied.'
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:08 Kim ODonnel
10:09
Kim ODonnel: 
I got inspired after spending last Sat am w/ Seattle chef Greg Atkinson, who told me he was planning for 2nd year in a row to bone his entire turkey. Not sure I want to do that, but I am always thrilled by a spatchcocked chicken.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:09 Kim ODonnel
10:09
[Comment From Sarah Sarah : ] 
I'm thinking to brine sounds good, but honestly haven't figured out the details yet. Suggestions welcome...and I want to know about dem green beans too!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:09 Sarah
10:09
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Well, I'm kind of a stickler for just steamed green beans--I like my beans pure, heh. But this year I am thinking of adding spaetzle to them--like we talked about last week. Also, Linear: I love soup before the main thing. It's a nice way to ease into the meal. We will have 7 folks I think.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:09 Jeanne in Seattle
10:12
Kim ODonnel: 
Sarah, here are the details for the brine I've been using for the past 10 years. It comes from a 1999 NYT article w/ recipe from Alice Waters:
For 12-14 pounder, you need to boil 2 gallons water
Add 3/4 cup sugar & 3/4 cup Kosher salt
Then add 1 carrot, peeled & diced
1 large yellow onion, peeled & chopped
2-3 stalks celery, diced
1 leek, cleaned & diced
2 bay leaves
1 tablespoon black peppercorns
1 tablespoons coriander seeds
1/4 teaspoon red pepper flakes
1/4 teaspoon fennel seeds
2 star anise pods
few sprigs of thyme
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:12 Kim ODonnel
10:13
Kim ODonnel: 
What you do is dissolve sugar & salt, then turn heat off. Add rest of brine ingredients & allow it to completely cool, then transfer to fridge in smaller containers. When it's cold, you can use to pour over cold turkey.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:13 Kim ODonnel
10:13
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I do a brine. And I start the turkey upside down, lying breast-side down for the 1st hour--helps keep the breast moist.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:13 Jeanne in Seattle
10:13
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
I love the "trough" nomenclature - but I don't think I'll mention it until after dinner as my guy and my nephew might put it into practice a la A Christmas Story. . .
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:13 Linear Girl
10:13
Kim ODonnel: 
LOL, Linear!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:13 Kim ODonnel
10:13
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Butterflied I know. Spatchcocking is my new word. I will use it as much as possible in the next week.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:13 Jeanne in Seattle
10:13
Kim ODonnel: 
Try saying it 3 times fast...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:13 Kim ODonnel
10:14
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
So if we're looking for a new insult, instead of calling someone spineless we could call them a spatchcock! Not that calling names is acceptable behavior.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:14 Linear Girl
10:14
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
I'm here! And this year, I am all about PIE. Making the dough for crusts over the weekend and letting it rest a few days before turning out pumpkin, apple, mincemeat and pecan. Super extra bonus: invited a friend's daughter (i.e. "future babysitter") over to make a pumpkin pie on Wednesday. Winning, all around! (Oh, and green beans - we discussed last week.)
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:14 Erin
10:15
Kim ODonnel: 
How nice, Erin. Sounds like you've got a busy Wed. planned! Will the kids be helping out?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:15 Kim ODonnel
10:15
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Linear: That's hilarious! I love it. And yes, making fun of people is not nice.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:15 Jeanne in Seattle
10:15
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Jeanne - you remind me that we often grill our green beans with olive oil, salt and pepper (the holy triad at my house). This year we're going for brussels sprouts. Anyone ever grilled them? I know I could roast, but the oven will be busy.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:15 Linear Girl
10:15
Kim ODonnel: 
Grilled Brussels will be fab. Cut them in half, methinks.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:15 Kim ODonnel
10:15
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Maybe I could serve the soup from a buffet informally and anyone who wants some could help themselves as they head to the table. I don't want to lose my onion-fennel bisque.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:15 Linear Girl
10:16
Kim ODonnel: 
Yes, that's a great idea, with a big group. Don't lose the onion-fennel bisque!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:16 Kim ODonnel
10:16
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
The chefs on the radio this morning were discussing the concept of taking the whole bird apart and roasting the breast separately from the legs, which they were going to braise and then make gravy from. One of the guys said he removes the leg bones, then sets the turkey on top of those to roast and make more yummy pan juices.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:16 Jeanne in Seattle
10:17
Kim ODonnel: 
Sounds v. similar to what Greg what talking about. You know chefs are -- they love to deconstruct & put back together...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:17 Kim ODonnel
10:17
[Comment From Sarah Sarah : ] 
Thanks for the recipe! I will look into it...though my turkey will be an 8-10 lber.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:17 Sarah
10:18
Kim ODonnel: 
Then maybe use 1.5 gallons water, with 1/2 cup each sugar, salt & adjust rest of seasonings accordingly?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:18 Kim ODonnel
10:18
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I used to use the Alice Waters/Chez Panisse recipe for brine. Now I use an adapted Martha Stewart recipe. Also, of note: Alice Waters, in her newest book, Art of Simple Food, says that she and Chez Panisse no longer do brining--they feel it's not necessary. LOL!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:18 Jeanne in Seattle
10:19
Kim ODonnel: 
Hilarious, Jeanne. I actually love the flavor from the brine.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:19 Kim ODonnel
10:19
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
The pies will be made over Wed/Thurs, so there shouldn't be much rush or pressure; kids will likely have a hand in rolling dough and stirring things, smashing pecans... there is always something that they can help with, other than the eating, of course. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:19 Erin
10:20
Kim ODonnel: 
Erin, do you have a dough recipe or technique you're partial to?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:20 Kim ODonnel
10:20
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I know there are many ways to put a roast turkey up over the top, but I kind of like the simplicity of roasting it whole, without a lot of bells and whistles (except, of course, for my idea of beginning the process breast-down for an hour). The turkey looks pretty and tastes fine.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:20 Jeanne in Seattle
10:20
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Kim: yes I love the brine, too. Harold McGee claims that the turkey doesn't absorb flavor but sugar and salt, but I disagree.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:20 Jeanne in Seattle
10:21
Kim ODonnel: 
I disagree, too. I feel like it's an infusion, like a tea, and I inevitably pick up the star anise, coriander & fennel. Plus I feel like a brine acts like a built-in baster. You put bird in oven & it's so moist it needs no xtra attention.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:21 Kim ODonnel
10:22
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Also, the chefs this morning recommended doing 2 smaller 10-14 lb turkey rather than 1- 20 pounder. They felt that bigger turkeys don't roast well and don't taste that good.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:22 Jeanne in Seattle
10:22
Kim ODonnel: 
Now that I agree with. Most home ovens also can't accommodate a 20-pounder. And it would take up the entire fridge!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:22 Kim ODonnel
10:22
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Anyone else having trouble limiting the menu? I want to cook ALL of my favorite autumn/Thanksgiving recipes. This year our group is less adventurous so I'm making more traditional foods - plain cranberry instead of (or maybe in addition to) the kind with chinese 5-spice and red onions. But I also want a persimmon chutney. And if I make all three, then I can't try a new recipe, too. Moderation is killing me.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:22 Linear Girl
10:23
Kim ODonnel: 
Maybe that means there's another autumn harvest dinner in sight for you, Linear? Perhaps next wknd when all the relatives are gone?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:23 Kim ODonnel
10:24
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Then again, Harold McGee now recommends adding water to your pie crust dough with a mister, so I'm kind of not listening to him right now. :)
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:24 Jeanne in Seattle
10:25
Kim ODonnel: 
Interesting. Typically, I add ice cold water bit by bit and see how it absorbs. I also add 1 tablespoon of cider vinegar. Usually use a minimum of 3 T water.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:25 Kim ODonnel
10:25
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
As for pie crust dough, my go-to recipe, that I've adapted to gluten-free, is Lynne Rossetto Kasper's recipe. Perfect!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:25 Jeanne in Seattle
10:25
Kim ODonnel: 
Oh, you must link to it, Jeanne!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:25 Kim ODonnel
10:25
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Anybody have strong feelings about stuffing the bird v. cooking the stuffing separately?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:25 Linear Girl
10:26
Kim ODonnel: 
I rarely stuff the bird anymore. In fact, I'm not doing bread stuffing (unless I heard sounds of protest this wknd) and instead with do a version of mudjarrah -- lentils, rice & caramelized onions.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:26 Kim ODonnel
10:27
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Linear: I hear you. Thats why I like to gather folks and have an after-Thanksgiving feast. You can break out more recipes then.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:27 Jeanne in Seattle
10:27
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
For pie crusts we've become fans of the cook's illustrated recipe that uses vodka for some of the liquid. You get the advantage of extra moisture for easier dough handling, but a lot of it evaporates out during cooking so it stays flaky. We've had very nice results.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:27 Linear Girl
10:27
Kim ODonnel: 
Similar to the cider vinegar! The acid makes it tender, and easy to handle.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:27 Kim ODonnel
10:28
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I've been reading a lot about pie crusts, and the water isn't the culprit in tough pie. Water doesn't hinder it from being flaky unless you add way too much.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:28 Jeanne in Seattle
10:28
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
I copied a buttermilk pie dough recipe from the local paper a long time ago; that, and a few technique tricks have yielded this: 2 1/2 c. unbleached AP flour, 2 tbsp. sugar, 1 tsp. salt, 1 c. unsalted butter, chilled and diced, 1/3 c. buttermilk. Place flour, salt, sugar in large mixing bowl, whisk to combine. Add diced butter and using a pastry blender, work cold butter into flour mixture until it resembles coarse meal. With a fork, add cold buttermilk and bring dough together (at some point, using your hands). Work into a ball but do not knead. Divide in half and make into a ball; flatten into a disc onto plastic wrap. Wrap and chill for at least 30 minutes before rolling out. Makes 2 crusts; keeps for 1 week in refrigerator. *Tip 1: allow dough to rest at room temperature for 15 minutes before rolling out. *Tip 2: roll out ON the plastic wrap to make transfer to pie plate easier. *Note 1: if you want a flakier crust, you can sub half of the butter with chilled shortening. *Note 2: you can use powdered buttermilk, too: just measure the appropriate amount into the dry ingredients and use water.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:28 Erin
10:29
Kim ODonnel: 
Again, another acid to help tenderize the dough...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:29 Kim ODonnel
10:29
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
The vodka in the pie crust does the same thing as vinegar: relaxes the gluten-strands and helps it not be tough.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:29 Jeanne in Seattle
10:29
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
And some more vodka for the cook!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:29 Erin
10:30
Kim ODonnel: 
Yeah, because a shot of buttermilk wouldn't do the trick...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:30 Kim ODonnel
10:30
Kim ODonnel: 
Was thinking about making dinner rolls. Rose Levey Beranbaum has a killer recipe. We'll see -- my husband would probably do a jig, which is always fun to see...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:30 Kim ODonnel
10:31
[Comment From Erin Erin : ] 
Does anyone make or serve eggnog for their Thanksgiving fete? Or local dairy has kicked off their "season" already.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:31 Erin
10:32
Kim ODonnel: 
I get a craving for a little nog at some point but all I need is 6 ounces & then I don't need to have any for another year. It is just too rich for me. I think I'm drawn to the smell of nutmeg...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:32 Kim ODonnel
10:32
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Erin - the rule at our house is no booze until the pies are out and the turkey is in the oven. We've learned the hard way to stick to this.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:32 Linear Girl
10:33
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Erin - instead of eggnog we serve Ramos gin fizz. Whipped cream, whipped egg whites, gin, citrus, sugar and crushed ice whirled in the blender. Like drinking a citrus-gin cloud.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:33 Linear Girl
10:33
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Sorry, I'm having browser issues--it keep freezing on me. Anyway, here's the link to Lynne Rossetto Kasper's pie crust recipe: http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/recipes/sundaysuppers/sep_pie.html
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:33 Jeanne in Seattle
10:33
Kim ODonnel: 
thanks, Jeanne. Lynne's recipes are v. reliable.Will have to check this one.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:33 Kim ODonnel
10:34
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Jeanne - what mix do you use to replace the flour to make it gf?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:34 Linear Girl
10:34
Kim ODonnel: 
Who wants to talk gravy?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:34 Kim ODonnel
10:35
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Linear: let me go get my link to the gf crust. Just a sec.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:35 Jeanne in Seattle
10:35
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
I love gravy!! Do you have a favorite technique Kim?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:35 Linear Girl
10:37
Kim ODonnel: 
I always estimate 1/2 cup per person, and do the math accordingly.
For 1 cup of gravy, you need 2 tablespoons each of fat & flour. Liquid amounts vary depending on how thick you like it, but 1/2 cup liquid (stock, etc) per person is a fair estimate.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:37 Kim ODonnel
10:38
Kim ODonnel: 
You always want to start w/ drippings & loosen them w/ your liquid.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:38 Kim ODonnel
10:39
Kim ODonnel: 
Flour is measured out -- and you always want to take a little to make a paste before adding it to the gravy pan, or else gravy will seize.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:39 Kim ODonnel
10:39
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Do you use the rendered fat from the turkey for your fat? My mom is coming this year - it's my first time cooking Thanksgiving for her so I'm a little nervous.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:39 Linear Girl
10:40
Kim ODonnel: 
I do use drippings, yes. You don't have to, of course. But homemade stock does make a killer gravy.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:40 Kim ODonnel
10:40
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Fine Cooking has an awesome recipe and video on how to make classic pan gravy--so helpful! http://www.finecooking.com/videos/how-to/make-gravy-pan-drippings.aspx
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:40 Jeanne in Seattle
10:40
Kim ODonnel: 
Oh, good one, Jeanne.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:40 Kim ODonnel
10:40
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Here's a link to my gf pie crust recipe with instructions on how to treat it: http://www.artofglutenfreebaking.com/2009/11/pie-crust-gluten-free-refined-71210/
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:40 Jeanne in Seattle
10:41
Kim ODonnel: 
Jeanne's GF stuff is so good you don't even notice it's different from gluten versions.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:41 Kim ODonnel
10:41
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Aw thanks, Kim!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:41 Jeanne in Seattle
10:41
Kim ODonnel: 
I speak ZE TRUTH.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:41 Kim ODonnel
10:41
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Hola -have my homemade stock in the freezer.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:41 Jackie
10:42
Kim ODonnel: 
Jackie! Good for you. You planning to use for gravy or are you making soup day after?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:42 Kim ODonnel
10:42
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Thanks for the links and advice. I'm making stock this weekend for my gravy. All that's left in the freezer is lamb broth.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:42 Linear Girl
10:43
Kim ODonnel: 
Linear, I will make stock this wknd too. It's a good thing to get out of the way.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:43 Kim ODonnel
10:43
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I use giblet stock for my gravy. Sounds gross, but makes the most yummy gravy ever! You simmer the giblets in water while you're roasting the turkey.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:43 Jeanne in Seattle
10:43
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Anybody make a great gf gravy?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:43 Linear Girl
10:43
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Gravy. I LOVE gravy.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:43 Jackie
10:43
Kim ODonnel: 
What are you tricks for killer gravy?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:43 Kim ODonnel
10:44
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Then strain the giblets out (I refuse to cut them up and add them to the gravy).
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:44 Jeanne in Seattle
10:44
Kim ODonnel: 
So you're basically doing a giblet infusion, Jeanne. Interesting.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:44 Kim ODonnel
10:44
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Linear: I have a gf gravy. Let me go get the link.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:44 Jeanne in Seattle
10:44
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
also baste the dressing with stock.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:44 Jackie
10:44
Kim ODonnel: 
jackie, is this for bread stuffing?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:44 Kim ODonnel
10:45
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
1. homemade stock, 2. braise neck, heart in stock on stovetop and use that enriched homemade stock. 3. Deglaze with Madeira
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:45 Jackie
10:45
Kim ODonnel: 
Wow, that's some gravy, Jackie!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:45 Kim ODonnel
10:45
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Here's a link to my gf gravy recipe: http://www.artofglutenfreebaking.com/2009/11/classic-pan-gravy-gluten-free-and-demystified/
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:45 Jeanne in Seattle
10:46
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Kim: yes, I guess it's a giblet infusion. It really puts the gravy taste up and over the top. My mom used to do it. I was shocked, as a little kid, that the yummy gravy was made partly with the giblets.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:46 Jeanne in Seattle
10:46
Kim ODonnel: 
Interesting. I may have to try this.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:46 Kim ODonnel
10:46
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Jeanne - thanks so much. My sister thanks you, too, although she doesn't know it yet.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:46 Linear Girl
10:46
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
make or buy mix of breads, for stuffing/dressing
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:46 Jackie
10:46
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
No matter how much gravy I make, never enough. Madeira is key, too
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:46 Jackie
10:47
Kim ODonnel: 
Madeira for gravy. Yes, it makes sense. Wow.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:47 Kim ODonnel
10:47
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Generally I don't like offal and I don't eat it. But I make an exception for the giblet stock/infusion.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:47 Jeanne in Seattle
10:48
Kim ODonnel: 
Jackie, sounds like you do something similar for your gravy -- or do you add the braised parts into the final result?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:48 Kim ODonnel
10:48
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Madeira was straight from Julia.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:48 Jackie
10:48
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I strain it b/c some folks really don't like.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:48 Jackie
10:48
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
i like using some herby-oniony bread along with plain breads/sourdoughs so you get a baked in punch.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:48 Jackie
10:48
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I have my (gluten-free) stuffing cubes made and in the freezer! I also have a pie crust rolled out, put in the pan and in the freezer, too!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:48 Jeanne in Seattle
10:49
Kim ODonnel: 
Jeanne, I wish I was half as organized as you!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:49 Kim ODonnel
10:49
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
So much easier to have stuff done ahead.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:49 Jackie
10:49
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: I lurve Julia. And I strain it, too!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:49 Jeanne in Seattle
10:50
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
This year I made my stuffing cubes out of gluten-free sourdough. I can't wait to see how it tastes in the stuffing!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:50 Jeanne in Seattle
10:50
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Also, I am a fan of stuffing. I stuff the turkey with some and bake the rest in a pan. Even the kids love it. I use a recipe from Joy of Cooking.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:50 Jeanne in Seattle
10:50
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
This year I have a Thanksgiving first
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:50 Jackie
10:50
Kim ODonnel: 
Yes....
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:50 Kim ODonnel
10:50
Kim ODonnel: 
Drum roll please...
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:50 Kim ODonnel
10:50
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
8 guests and one VEGETARIAN *gasp*
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:50 Jackie
10:51
Kim ODonnel: 
Ah, mixed company! Excellent. Well, you'll appreciate my meatless Tgiving piece which is currently getting edited by Kim C. Should be up no later than tomorrow.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:51 Kim ODonnel
10:52
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie--lol! Were you here last week for the vegetarian Thanksgiving chat?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:52 Jeanne in Seattle
10:53
Kim ODonnel: 
Here's audio link to yesterday's Kojo Nnamdi show. I was a guest along w/ vegan cookbook author Tracye McQuirter & Tara Parker-Pope from the New York Times.
http://ow.ly/3bsrB
an hour all about veg Thanksgiving!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:53 Kim ODonnel
10:53
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Kim: I'm usually not that organized. But I taught a pie crust class last night, so I have pie crust leftover.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:53 Jeanne in Seattle
10:53
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I'm thinking I'll do that Shepherd's pie so there is one sort of "ta-da" dish that's veg.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:53 Jackie
10:53
Kim ODonnel: 
Jackie, so glad you're thinking that way. Veggies need to feel special too!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:53 Kim ODonnel
10:54
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
My daughter is out of school next week. We take Tuesday and Wednesday and have girl-time preparing for Thanksgiving. She's 10 and is a great pal. I really love the concentrated time we spend preparing for Thursday.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:54 Jeanne in Seattle
10:54
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
I've got an interesting mix this year, too. 2 gf, 2 dairy intolerant, 2 picky eaters, 1 food snob and 1 seriously traditional eater. Only one overlap in the groupings. I'm making a bunch of food and everyone should be able to eat MOST things.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:54 Linear Girl
10:54
Kim ODonnel: 
That is a tough group, Linear. Have you got your mashed all worked out dairy free?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:54 Kim ODonnel
10:54
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
OMG Linear Girl - are you drinking yet? I would be!!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:54 Jackie
10:55
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Have made some minor tweaks to a few menu items, but have decided to add things rather than change the main dishes
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:55 Jackie
10:56
Kim ODonnel: 
And Linear, does everyone eat the turkey?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:56 Kim ODonnel
10:56
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Linear: I also came up with a rice milk evaporated milk that might be of use to you: simmer 4 C plain rice milk for about 2 hours. Reduce it to 1.5 C--the amount in an evaporated milk can. This is good in pie.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:56 Jeanne in Seattle
10:56
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Linear Girl - one thing I do with mashed that makes them rich tasting w/o dairy (I use some at end but you could omit, I think) is to boil Yukon Golds (already golden and buttery tasting) in chicken stock.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:56 Jackie
10:57
Kim ODonnel: 
For dairy-free mashed, I reduce the cooking liquid so that it's starchier. Hand mash, season w/ a head of roasted garlic.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:57 Kim ODonnel
10:57
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: That's a terrific idea!
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:57 Jeanne in Seattle
10:57
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Don't know if the stock makes it gluten intolerant? One interesting fact I learned just last year is that many supermarket birds are injected with solution that includes gluten,
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:57 Jackie
10:57
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
So those "pre basted" butterballs are no good for GF folks.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:57 Jackie
10:58
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
(not good for anyone really..)
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:58 Jackie
10:58
Kim ODonnel: 
The pre-basted numbers I do not understand.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:58 Kim ODonnel
10:58
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: yes, many commercial stocks are made with gluten. You have to read the labels carefully.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:58 Jeanne in Seattle
10:59
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Also, FYI: most commercially available hams are no gluten-free, either. They use wheat starch in the preparation. Honey Baked Hams is a big culprit with this.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:59 Jeanne in Seattle
10:59
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Luckily my veg guest is not celiac or vegan so I can use dairy and just have some meat-free items
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:59 Jackie
10:59
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Everyone eats the turkey, the mashed potatoes will probably have *some* butter but stock instead of milk (and some garlic - I love the idea of cooking them in stock, too, thanks), the snob gave me the best recipe ever for stuffing (which won't be gf), the sweet potatoes will meet everyone's needs, I hope, the veggies will be pretty plain - i figure if I meet everyone half-way, they can do the same.
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:59 Linear Girl
10:59
Kim ODonnel: 
Linear, do you have anyone helping you?
Thursday November 18, 2010 10:59 Kim ODonnel
11:01
Kim ODonnel: 
Oh, just remembered, All Recipes.com is hosting an 8-hour web cast this Saturday, Nov 20. They're covering everything from soup to nuts. I'll be part of the meatless segment around 1 PT, but check it out if you're still looking for how-to advice.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:01 Kim ODonnel
11:01
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Yep, my best friend (the snob) and my guy will be working with me. Maybe my mom.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:01 Linear Girl
11:01
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Linear: you can easily make the stuffing gf. But if you don't, don't stuff the turkey with it or your gluten-intolerant guest won't be able to eat the turkey, either.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:01 Jeanne in Seattle
11:01
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Anyone hear Harold McGee on Fresh Air. His turkey tip cracks me up. I never have trouble w/dry turkey but thinking I'll try it anyway:
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:01 Jackie
11:01
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
He takes the turkey out and let's it come to room temp but keeps gel ice packs ace-bandaged around the breast so it starts the breast at a cooler templ
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:01 Jackie
11:01
Kim ODonnel: 
WHA!?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:01 Kim ODonnel
11:02
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
If you have a Whole Foods in your area, they usually have gf stuffing cubes are are really good. Or you can bake a loaf of gluten-free bread and make your own cubes.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:02 Jeanne in Seattle
11:02
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: yes, I was just talking about he now recommends adding water to your pie dough with a mister. He's kind of gone a bit nuts, I think.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:02 Jeanne in Seattle
11:03
Kim ODonnel: 
I always stick the legs in the back, where it's warmer, no ice pack required...
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:03 Kim ODonnel
11:03
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Jeanne - thanks for the reminder about stuffing the bird. I love my homemade bread in the stuffing which is why it won't be gf.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:03 Linear Girl
11:03
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I do an herb composed butter under the skin and on top, and cheescloth over breast so basting sauce (which I know doesn't moisten meat) but colors and flavors skin.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:03 Jackie
11:03
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Lynne Rossetto Kasper (one of my idols) recommends starting your turkey out breast-side down for an hour to keep it moister. I have now done this for 3 years--works like a charm.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:03 Jeanne in Seattle
11:03
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
well I have tried that in the past and it might be a good idea for inexperienced bakers but once you've made a few pies, you can get a feel for how much water
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:03 Jackie
11:03
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
We flip the bird part-way through cooking, starting it breast down to cook it evenly.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:03 Linear Girl
11:04
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Jeanne I'm too scared to try turning the bird or ripping the skin. But it would protect the breast meat too. I tent with foil, for part of roasting which I think does the same.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:04 Jackie
11:05
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Jackie - you flip it relatively early on and it doesn't stick (of course I probably just jinxed myself).
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:05 Linear Girl
11:05
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
An odd tool (and total unitasker) i tried and loved is a roasting wand. Anyone else like it?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:05 Jackie
11:05
Kim ODonnel: 
What the heck is that?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:05 Kim ODonnel
11:05
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: actually tenting does something different. Starting the breast side down actually uses gravity to pull the moisture into the breast.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:05 Jeanne in Seattle
11:05
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Yes, agree with Linear--the flipping is easy and no sticking or tearing.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:05 Jeanne in Seattle
11:06
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I love stuffing in the bird - the roasting wand is a tube which goes through the stuffing and bird and b/c it's metal raises the temp of the stuffing so no poisoning the guest worries
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:06 Jackie
11:06
Kim ODonnel: 
Interesting...
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:06 Kim ODonnel
11:06
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Hm maybe I'll start the upsided down thing
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:06 Jackie
11:07
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
http://www.roastingwand.com/
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:07 Jackie
11:07
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
You should always make sure your stuffing is at the same temp as your bird when you put everything in the oven. Warm/hot stuffing in a cold bird=problems.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:07 Jeanne in Seattle
11:07
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
What kind of appetizers are you serving? We'll have a buffet of shrimp, vegetables with non-dairy dip, baked olives, and ???
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:07 Linear Girl
11:07
Kim ODonnel: 
Linear, what about kale chips? Or spiced nuts?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:07 Kim ODonnel
11:08
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Yes, we do baked feta and olives w/crackers. Kale chips, too! I can't really eat that much beforehand because I can't eat anything during dinner if I do!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:08 Jeanne in Seattle
11:08
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Apps here will be: thyme scented pecans; greens-mozz bruschetta; smoked salmon spread/dip w/crudite and stone crab claws
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:08 Jackie
11:08
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
I bet you could put long metal skewers through the bird to achieve the same effect as the roasting wand.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:08 Linear Girl
11:09
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Spiced nuts are a great idea. oo, and smoked salmon. yes.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:09 Linear Girl
11:09
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I invite folks to join us anytime after 12 and we try to sit down at 3 so I like to have nibbles for the cocktail hour
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:09 Jackie
11:09
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
CocktailS hours (getting a theme here?)
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:09 Jackie
11:09
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
I don't think the roasting wand is necessary unless you have a giant bird. Just make sure your bird and your stuffing are at the same temp when they go into the oven--i.e., room temp.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:09 Jeanne in Seattle
11:09
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Do you buy or make kale chips?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:09 Linear Girl
11:10
Kim ODonnel: 
CoolLinear -- but of course, make! And from the Meat Lover's Meatless Cookbook!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:10 Kim ODonnel
11:10
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Linear - the wand is a tube and I think the air in the middle helps the process but maybe skewers would do same?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:10 Jackie
11:10
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Kale chips so easy!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:10 Jackie
11:10
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Problem with kale chips is they don't last long.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:10 Jackie
11:11
Kim ODonnel: 
Like Lay's...you can't have just one...
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:11 Kim ODonnel
11:11
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
They are easy and delicious! My daughter's birthday party of little girls ate several bowls of the kale chips last year. They couldn't get enough of them.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:11 Jeanne in Seattle
11:11
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Can I make the kale chips the day before?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:11 Linear Girl
11:11
Kim ODonnel: 
they're best made day of. If you do night before, store in a paper bag.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:11 Kim ODonnel
11:12
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I made a huge batch one day just before hubs coming home time. Guess how many he got to try?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:12 Jackie
11:12
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
You could cut the kale up the night before.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:12 Jeanne in Seattle
11:13
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Jeanne good idea. I do all my mise that can be done ahead ahead and store in (heinous but convenient) ziploc bags.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:13 Jackie
11:13
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
I've used skewers in baked potatoes before to help them bake faster - I think it's about conducting heat rather than transferring air, but I'm not a physicist.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:13 Linear Girl
11:13
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
I love the thought of a girls slumber party eating kale chips!!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:13 Jackie
11:14
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: yes! I do that too. Makes the day of so much nicer if you're not chopping things all day.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:14 Jeanne in Seattle
11:14
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Linear - I think it's both, probably wouldn't be as fast without the hot air conduction but it would be a way to bring heat directly into the cavity
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:14 Jackie
11:15
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
adding persimmon to my cranberry sauce this year hopefully no one balks
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:15 Jackie
11:15
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Also, my mom would get up at the crack of dawn to start the bird. I don't. We like to sleep in. So our bird is done by about 4--which is a nice time.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:15 Jeanne in Seattle
11:15
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Does anyone else also get a can of jelly?
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:15 Jackie
11:15
Kim ODonnel: 
Could talk forever about the big feast -- looks like we're way past the hour! Thank you all for such a fun chat. I learned a few things meself. Whatever you do, have a safe and delicious Thanksgiving. Hope it's filled with family & fellowship.  Type to you again in 2 weeks, when get down to the nitty gritty with holiday cookies!  All best.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:15 Kim ODonnel
11:15
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Jackie: interesting--haven't thought of persimmon to cranberry sauce. Will think about that one.
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:15 Jeanne in Seattle
11:16
[Comment From Linear Girl Linear Girl : ] 
Thanks Kim!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:16 Linear Girl
11:16
[Comment From Jeanne in Seattle Jeanne in Seattle : ] 
Thanks, everyone! Fun chat!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:16 Jeanne in Seattle
11:16
[Comment From Jackie Jackie : ] 
Thanks!
Thursday November 18, 2010 11:16 Jackie
Subscribe
Comments
There are 2 comments on this item
Add a comment
1. by ruth_117 on Nov 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM PST

I missed the chat again!!! Oh well Canadian Thanksgiving was over a month ago (harvest and winter comes early up here!!!) and all this talk of Turkey is making me hungry. Just wanted to make a suggestion on the dinner rolls. I made Farmgirl Susans Carrot herb rolls last year and they were awesome!!!! Here’s the link: http://www.farmgirlfare.com/2007/11/beautiful-bargain-bread-book-for.html

2. by old hippie on Nov 20, 2010 at 7:25 PM PST

thanksgiving how time flies, 6 days to go will have 3) 2yr olds and three bitchey d inlaws but what to hell family time is great,

Add a comment

Think before you type

Culinate welcomes comments that are on-topic, clean, and courteous. For the benefit of the community we reserve the right to delete comments that contain advertising, personal attacks, profanity, or which are thinly disguised attempts to promote another website.

Please enter your comment

Format: Bare URLs are automatically linked; use this style: [http://www.example.com "place text to be linked here"] for prettier links. You may specify *bold* or _italic_ text. No HTML please.

Please identify yourself

Not a member? Sign up!

Please prove that you’re not a computer


Table Talk

Kim O’Donnel is a trained chef, nationally recognized online food personality, and a longtime journalist. She is the author of a new cookbook, The Meat Lover’s Meatless Cookbook.

Want more? Comb the archives.

Advertisement
Culinate 8

Kale in the raw

Eight versions of kale salad

Eight ways to spin everyone’s favorite salad.

Subscribe
Graze: Bites from the Site
First Person

The secret sharer

A father’s legacy

The Culinate Interview

Mollie Katzen

The vegetarian-cooking pioneer

Reviews

Down South

Barbecue, tamales, cocktails, and more

Local Flavors

A winter romesco sauce

Good on everything

Editor’s Choice